I’ve being doing this long enough that I got to have a guest back. Lee Ann Marshel joins me to discuss some logistics around how to shelter children in the neighbor if sheltering in the school is currently too logistically difficult. I learned about a couple of networks. the Mockingbird Society and Safe Families, which might serve as examples. She enlightened us about SB5184 requires a school based contact for foster children.
Transcript
keevin bybee 0:00
Welcome to the one school podcast. This is keevin Bybee. I’m a family physician exploring through conversations, how we might be able to create something like a 24 seven community center slash school to help keep our children and learners safe. Today, I am having Leanne Marshall back, she is our first guest that we’ve had twice. She’s a social worker who works with public schools and formerly worked in foster care, dovetailing with the previous conversation I had with the local homeless shelter executive director, he recommended that perhaps instead of having the school shelter children, when all the various regulatory hurdles that come along with it, we might instead have something like a foster care network available on an emergency basis. So really appreciate Leann talking with me again, and sharing a whole bunch of great resources. Without further ado.
Okay, so my question for today was, if we, if it’s logistically really hard for a school to house or shelter kids overnight, for any period of time, would it be possible to have like a local foster care network of families or homes kind of available on an on call basis? And so I just thought you might have some expertise or thoughts around that.
Leanne Marshal 1:25
Yeah. So I think that the Mockingbird model is the ideal model for families, or for foster homes. But it’s hard to find, I think what’s really the what makes it the difficult part is that when you have a home specifically for a certain thing, they get filled up quickly, because there is such an emergency of homes needed. And kids don’t, we don’t want kids to stay in the hotel rooms. And you know, in that in the office. And so when we have these things available, like these foster homes available, it’s like people just fill them up. I mean, when the kids come into care, they immediately get filled. So it would be a, it would need to build a balance, I guess, of you know, what homes. Because what a mockingbird model is it’s basically it’s six to 10 family foster foster families within a certain mile radius. And there’s like that, so let’s say there are six to 10 homes, and then one becomes the hub home that helps the other foster families. And so like they can provide emergency respite care, they can provide, you know, some resources for foster families, they can provide, you know, just childcare stuff if they need it. So ideally, this kind of model is ideal, but at the cost of the cost is always the issue. Finding the homes within that same mile radius is also always hard, and finding like sufficient amounts of homes. So this model has been thrown out there for years.And then it has been tried in different pockets of areas, but it some has been successful in some areas, when you can find the homes that actually want to be able to support each other and that are within the same area. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think I think it’s a it’s a great concept. I think that it’s totally doable, but I feel like I know that what the state has been financially it’s the Mockingbird Mont family model has always been expensive because you have to keep homes opened and beds open with no kids and still pay the foster home because then they’re on the as needed basis and an emergency basis. Um, but it I mean, I think it’s doable if you find the right neighborhoods and the right families to participate together to support that either that neighborhood or that school or wherever it may be. Okay, very cool. Yeah, I hadn’t heard of the Mockingbird society that’s like exactly the kind of thing we’re looking for. And as you said it’s always about money and political will and yeah and and I like I said it’s been tried in different areas throughout Washington I know that it has but there’s been there’s pockets that have been successful and other pockets that have but yeah, I’ll have to send you some information about that. So you can kind of read on a read up on that model and what that model does, I mean it provides it’s great it’s a great system I think it it’s something that could work if you just have the right over if you have the right oversight and if you have the right families within the same mile radius so that you can help each other out. Fantastic. Are these typically like a partnered with a particular school in some way? I Not that I know of but it could be I mean, you could like you could very much put this model into like around a school and say we’re looking for foster homes around this like five mile radius. That’s In the boundaries of this school, for emergency based, you know, like emergency basis for children who are coming into care in this neighborhood, and they don’t have to leave their schools, they can go directly to a home that they can go to school the next day, you know, things like that.
keevin bybee 5:16
And how much of a challenge is it to recruit families to be one of these on color emergency foster hosts?
Leanne Marshal 5:27
I think, I mean, depending on the agency, and how, I mean, I think that if you find the right homes, I think it’s they, I mean, it worked, it would work, it would just be a matter of that of that family, you know, buying into having an open bed, making sure that you know, like them knowing that and having the training that they need. So, you know, if a kid comes into care, what do they do? What’s their first step, second step, like the licensing process, things like that. So I think it’s about educate, educating your that neighborhood or educating the people around there. And when we used to do recruitment or retention, we used to talk to like, the HOA, and all that to try to see like different neighborhoods as a type of recruitment. So talking to Hoa is insane. Um, you know, like, this is a need in your area, are you guys willing to become you know, because I mean, some areas don’t want that. And then some areas are open to that. So I think I mean, that was just one of our kind of things that we tried, I guess we would say like, we just kind of tried and ended presentations to the HOA the different choices and said, Hey, you know, this is a meeting or neighborhood, are you willing to? Are you guys willing? Or is there a few homes that are willing to open for this, this specific thing? I think the recruitment part is really hard that they have to have you have to have buy in, right?
keevin bybee 6:51
Yeah. Well, it sounds like that’s about the first positive reference to an HOA that I’ve heard.
Leanne Marshal 6:57
They have they’ve let people in to just do a presentation. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they could be against it. I mean, there’s a lot of HOA fees and a lot of, you know, like, neighborhoods and stuff that wouldn’t allow that, you know, like, Oh, we don’t want foster kids running around our neighborhoods. You know what I mean?
keevin bybee 7:14
Yeah, yeah, nimbyism is a problem, and so many aspects of our society, right?
Leanne Marshal 7:20
And then some people saying, Well, what if the kid comes? So these are just some of the things that we heard? So what if the kids parents live two blocks from our house? Like, how is that you know, because then it’s strange that you’re, then you start thinking about safety? Is it safe for that child to go there? Is that? Or are we putting that family in danger? Because we’ve just taken this child away from this parent, and they literally two blocks away? Just all the little logistics things that would have to be thought out? I guess. And then, yeah, I mean, I think it’s, it’s anything’s always a possibility. It’s just a matter of all the logistical things. And like, like I said, the, the process of becoming licensed to, like you said, safety, and, you know, also the way we frame it, taking kids away, I don’t know what the fix is, other than how do we, you know, once again, create a communal environment like our ancestral hunter gatherers, where sometimes kids just needed to spend, you know, an hour a day a week away from their family. I think that was pretty common practice. When we were you know, in our sub Dunbar’s number 150 people, hunter gatherer tribes, and the fact that we’re forcing everybody to stay in the same house for weeks and months on end, can definitely wear on anybody’s mental health. Right. And so I think and then, so then we’re thinking about a different type of model where it’s like, we’re doing more we’re having I in there was a program for what I used to, I used to work for all oppressed, and they had a program, it’s called Safe Families. And that model was more of like, what you’re explaining about being available for a family if they’re needing help, and having that type of respite care for them. So not saying that we’re going to foster the kid but saying that we want to help we want to kind of adopt this family and we want to be able to be there as a support system for this family. So that kind of model is out there as well. It’s called Safe Families. And it’s, that’s up in Bellevue area, but that is also a model that, um, I think is really it’s that helps with kids that helps with preventative work, right? Like it helps with kids not going into care. It helps give the family some type of like solid support where as family members sometimes aren’t as solid or as you know, as how do I want to say it like not like they’re just not, like, just reliable, I guess. And so you would want to have this family that’s in your neighborhood and you want to help this other family who’s struggling, for whatever reason, you know, mom just lost her job or something’s happening and then I have this person in their neighborhood, that is somebody that they can lean on support, you know, help, you know, they can support them and all of that. So it’s more like a team. It’s more like a teamwork. And it’s more like built in support for you within your neighborhood.
keevin bybee 10:16
Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it good for, you know, lots of historical reasons, we put up really strong boundaries. And we’ve also got a lot of cultural issues about asking for and accepting help. And, of course, the power dynamic that goes in with, you know, offering help from a Oh, you can’t do it by yourself, versus we’re all human. And we all struggle, and sometimes we all just need a hand. And, you know, nobody was born without help. So let’s just open up that spectrum throughout the lifetime.
Leanne Marshal 10:49
Yes. And that’s just that’s just a different way. That’s, that’s totally flipping the negative to a positive, right, exactly. Like sort of saying, Oh, yeah, we’re gonna put your kid in foster cares, because you don’t have your stuff together. We’re saying, Hey, here’s a family who’s willing to help you and to kind of, you know, help you find resources and to, you know, give you some respite care, which is, you know, taking your kid for the day was it what you go run all your errands, or go grocery shopping? Like, we have family members for that, right? Like, I have a family member that I can call and say, Hey, come in, can you come watch my kids while I go to the grocery store, which is less puts less stress on me. And then I can go to the grocery store, get my stuff and come home. Whereas people who are in lower income neighborhoods don’t have a lot of family support, you know, whatever their situation may be, they may not feel comfortable reaching out to people or asking for help. And so then they they get themselves in this bind, where it’s like, then their kids are being neglected. They don’t know how they’re stressed out, they can’t pay their bills, you know, things like that. And then it just become and then it becomes a neglect or abuse issue. Right. And then we come in, and we tried to like help that, but that it’s like, we’re already removed the kids. And now we just put all these other barriers against this family.
keevin bybee 12:04
Yeah, I guess, you know, in my mind, the idea that this would all be, you know, hugged at the local community school and as seamless as possible, might help kind of overcome some of that negative stigma and connotation. Right? Do you have contacts at either Mockingbird, or olive crest?
Leanne Marshal 12:27
I mean, I do a little bit and I wasn’t like I was part of that branch. But I wasn’t in that program. But I just knew there was a program of all oppressed. And we were another program. So I don’t, I just knew of the program. I’m not exactly sure who works there. I haven’t worked there for a year. So maybe I’ll maybe I’ll cold call them and hey, maybe somebody who’s listening? Who knows, yeah. And they can tell you about I can send you their information, I can send you the mockingbirds information to um, just so they kind of have idea of the models, the different models out there and how you can like, you can almost implement and like, do kind of your like it, because you know, we’ve talked about this is like every area is different. So every approach can be and we can we can you can combine multiple programs together to make one to fit that. That area, right? Yeah, exactly. What are you basing things, but you’re gonna base things on the need of that area, because every area in every community is different. So you are going to have to base what that need is in that community. And you can take all these different models and programs and base it and it kind of like, mush them together and see what works, what didn’t work, and then put that into that area, because it could work there, you know, kind of build what you what the need is around the area that you’re working in? Very much. So rather than a prescription. What are the what are some very general principles and a framework that people can take and adapt as they need? I think a lot of the times people try to like force fit a model without really considering the the impact or the intricacies of any local environment. So yeah, I totally agree with what you’re saying. Again, it’s a great concept. I think there’s a lot of programs out there that would be that, like we could just like you could just mesh together.
keevin bybee 14:23
Well, good. I know, you’ve already pointed me to a couple that had not been on my radar yet. And that’s what I love learning about. And hopefully we’ll find somebody along there who wants to talk to well, cool. Well, that was my main question. I don’t want to eat up too much your time. Since we last talked. I was just curious if you’ve had any other thoughts about what might make this 24 seven community centers slash school slash foster care Hub Network system, even better or other things that
Leanne Marshal 15:00
It would be neat to see. Um, so just some thoughts that I kind of have. I mean, just I think all of this is a great concept. And now I’m working in the school. So I see it more than ever, but just something to throw out there. I think there was a law that passed, I’m Charles trying to find out right now. But I but there was a law that passed about having a kind of like, building something like this in the schools, but not not to this extent, but to like a degree of having a point person at the school, I’d be able to identify all the foster kids within that school, so that they can track them. And they can, you know, make sure that they’re getting their needs met, and all that stuff. So there’s something there’s a policy or a law that came into effect this year in Washington, I know, not sure about Oregon, but it was in Washington. That just is basically wanting to partner with the state and partnering with schools with foster children. So I mean, it’s a start, I just feel like that’s kind of that was kind of a plus is that we’re looking more at schools and saying, Hey, we need to identify these kids so that we can support them and their families better. And so like that person at that school, whether it be the counselor, I mean, they can identify whoever they want, but that person would then be tracking these students and making sure that their academics and their environment like everything is safe, and that they’re a part of this, you know, multidisciplinary team and that we’re all working together to make sure that this child is getting served the best that they can, right.
keevin bybee 16:29
Oh, fantastic. I was googling in the background, the keeping families together act, is that probably what you’re referring to? I don’t know if it’s, it may be, but it’s this has to do with the schools as partnering with the schools and foster school based health Bill 5184 requires school building to have a designated point of contact to coordinate services. Okay, there we go.
Leanne Marshal 16:51
That’s it. Maybe that’s what you’re referring to. Yep. That’s my and that just happened this year, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So maybe I’ll find out if there’s a champion or anybody there who has an insight. So awesome. Well, you’re just like dumping a bunch of great stuff on. Well, I just thought about it. I thought about this, this thing that you were talking about we had been talking about. And then this came up and I saw this and I was like, well, this kind of is a good tie in like it’s tying it’s the state is putting a law in place to tie it together. Right. So that was so separate, like, so it’s like, this is just kind of another good start to like, where maybe people are going with what how is foster care and school related? And how can we continue that? And, you know, I just thought it was a good start to something like, yeah,
keevin bybee 17:39
yeah, it absolutely is. And it’s neat to see that there are people doing real things about it.
Leanne Marshal 17:47
So I person that actually put this this law or this policy in place was actually a previous foster child who went through the system, and now was like, in some, and she I think she’s like involved in the politics now and stuff. And so it’s like she I think she’s the one that did this bill. Like, she’s the one that developed his bill and like it got it to go through and she and it was all her story is pretty awesome. So you may be able to like see that, too. When you’re reading more about this bill, it talks about her probably, and her experience and why she thinks that this is important. Um, so that one, so I’m going to send you is like just so there. I just got to say families pediatrics, and it’s like, so safe for children, and is that it’s a faith based community service movement. So I’m going to send you the PDF, the PDF one, and then I’ll send you the one from all of crust as well, just so that you kind of have some information on that.
keevin bybee 18:48
Much obliged. Thanks again, for all this info. I don’t want to keep you in your beautiful Tuesday afternoon, and I’m gonna go pick up my kids from their fishing camp. Oh, yeah, they’ve been going to trackers they like it a ton. I wish I could go to trackers, but instead I have to work. I think I heard about that is that like outdoorsy stuff? Yeah, it was originally started by this guy named Tom Brown, who is an outdoor survivalist. And now they got schools in several cities, but they teach kids everything from sword fighting to paintballing to survival to fishing. It’s an elementary school too, and Oh, cool. I’m just super jealous that my kids get to do it. Right. I like that sounds like a lot of fun.
Leanne Marshal 19:34
All right. Well, thanks for meeting up with me and let me know how it goes. If you have any other questions, feel free to reach out.
keevin bybee 19:43
Oh, I unbeatably will. Okay, awesome.
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