2/28/2021
Today I spoke with Joanne Stowell, MSW and Leeann Marshal, MSW about how important the earliest of interventions can prevent long term poor health outcomes. They both have worn many hats in their careers as social workers. We touch on the challenges of making the residential component of the school safe with appropriate liability guards. Leeann’s background in foster care work and family resourcing was extremely valuable. I wish they were compensated more appropriately for all the great work they’re doing and that we could clone them!
“If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe” Thanks for this Keevin!
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transcript:
keevin bybee 0:02
Welcome to the one school project. My name is keevin Bybee. I’m a family physician, and I’m having a series of conversations with people who would be experts in starting a school or turning a school into a 20 473 65 safe haven with robust social services for our children. Today, I’m speaking with social workers, Joanne Stoll, and Leanne Marshall. I’ve had the pleasure of working at the same primary care clinic with Joanne and she has had many years of collaboration and friendships with Leanne. And I’d love to hear from each of you guys, your your background in social work, how you found yourselves where you’re at today, and why you think that proposal I reached out to you is something worth considering. Let whoever wants to jump in first go first.
Leanne Marshal 0:56
So my name is Leanne Marshall and I have my Master’s in social work, I have been involved in child welfare for about 20 years now have worked in different sides of child welfare, worked with the state of Washington and at the division of Children and Family Services. I’ve worked at the hospital did a medical social work for about a year and now and I’ve done nonprofit work, working with family, with families and doing recruitment or retention for foster families. And now Currently, I am working as a school counselor. And during that experience, so have lots of experience in schools in child welfare and working with families and under served communities. So that’s kind of where my background comes in this proposal to me was, it caught my attention, because I really think that we need to wrap around our schools and our families. And the 24 seven idea was really catchy to me just because I feel like families need all year round help and support and a consistency in their communities so that they have the resources and support that they need to to get medical care to get food and shelter and things that they may need on a crisis basis. So I just found this to be a very interesting program and way to look at providing services for families all year round.
keevin bybee 2:34
Wonderful. Thank you. Joanne, please tell me why you bothered to answer my email that other day, and how you found yourself on the other side of the email.
Joanne Stowell 2:47
Absolutely. So my name is Joanne stowell, like leeann and I have a master’s in social work. And I’m also a licensed clinical social worker. And lots of experience also with child welfare, conducting investigations. And I’ve also have migrated over to the medical aspect, have worked with palliative care adult patients and as Dr. Bybee indicated have worked with, or currently working with him in the family medicine practice. So what has really caught my interest in this proposal is that it is a way to be proactive, instead of reactive. And I, from my experience working with children, and then also with adults and the elderly, I do see the pattern, the pattern of when children are not well taken care of as they’re growing up, not only with their mental and emotional well being but also physical, it does cause medical issues as they get older. And with the chronic medical conditions, I think that a lot of it could be prevented if we are able to spring on to the issues way early assault, that’s why I’m very interested in in this proposal and just helping to support our family. And like we also indicated, you know, they should be all year round, not just the nine months because we worry about the three months when they’re on summer vacation, and there’s that lack of services. So I look forward to working with Dr. Bybee and other professionals regarding this.
keevin bybee 4:41
Again, thank you so much for your time and expertise. You know, Social Work seems like people can wear a lot of hats and come from a lot of backgrounds. counseling resource connection is going to be a critical part of anything, anything like this. One thing I’d like to touch on is, in terms of, of, or getting people connected with resources, or taking care of our children and having people listen to them is, how many of you would we need under ideal circumstances, Leanne, you were able to find a statistic stating something to the effect that they there is recommended to be a ratio of 200 students per school counselor, where as and then, in fact, the average student to counselor ratio is like 460. So one, where do we think that 250 comes from? And if it were up to you, how many counselors Do you think should be in elementary schools supporting, you know, two to 500 students?
Leanne Marshal 5:49
So I think that the Association of counseling, school counselors have has said the ratio should be one to 250. And I think that’s I think that’s fair to say, because not every child needs assistance. But I also feel like that’s not real. I mean, for us, it’s not realistic, as you can see that the national numbers show that one, and it’s one counselor to every 450 kids, which I mean, that right there should say that, you know, I think there should be more counselors to, to each school. And I feel like having a school social, or a social school social worker, and a school counselor and a school nurse, and just building a bright, broader team, would be beneficial to all of these families. So having, you know, one of each, or maybe, you know, two counselors to one and one social worker, I mean, I think, depending on the number of students, I really think there should be at least two in every school, and I feel like there should be two. I mean, again, this is just my professional opinion. And as the, like the data had shows one per one counselor to 250, I think is pretty reasonable, just because not every child needs assistance, but having like 250 kids is still a lot. So I think dividing that and having more professional available, would it be beneficial to serve more children appropriately and follow them through?
keevin bybee 7:17
And from a social worker, case manager standpoint, you know, and again, pardon my ignorance, if I’m mixing terms are not putting the right umbrella terms where they belong. But for somebody that works in schools, how does a social worker who wouldn’t be like a counselor or therapist, follow children? And what’s your caseload? And do you feel like you have enough resources? Or you’re you would need to do two or three more of you in any one given school?
Unknown Speaker 7:49
I feel like they’re, they’re the resources are out there. I feel like right now, my kids I do to the way the schools are set up right now, the caseloads aren’t as they’re not as big, but there is still a lot of services being needing for these children. Um, I feel like schools are changing right now. The the way, the way we see schools or the way schools are being conducted right now are different, right? We’re only going twice a week. I mean, the pandemic has surely changed the way we look at schools, and how kids are coming back to school. So I feel like right now, the counselors and social workers are doing multiple things. They’re not just focused on one thing now they’re, they’re focused on, you know, how are the teachers well being How are the students doing adjusting to this new way of school, there’s a lot of different different layers of that right now during this current time that we’re in. So I feel like the caseload may not be as long as big, but there’s a lot of other layers to the job right now then just focusing on the well being of the children and all of that there’s different layers, with teachers and administration and all of that, that kind of plays in together to making sure that you know, things are people are mental. people’s mental health is okay. And doing okay. And that goes on every type of layer. So it’s hard to say, I don’t want to like, it’s hard to like answer the whole thing. That was,I mean, just, we’re just in a different climate. So it’s, you know, different and I think things are gonna,
keevin bybee 9:21
yeah, well, and that might dovetail with an interesting point. Um, there’s this guy called Zak Stein, who’s an educational theorist. And he likes to point out that if we consider culture at large, you know, basically the intergenerational transmission or transfer of information. I mean, that’s what a culture does is it tells people this is what we do. But in a sense, that’s ultimately what education really is. Right? That it’s how we transfer an adult’s information into the next generation. And that doesn’t just happen. In any one brick and mortar institution, or edifice, right, it’s something that’s distributed throughout the community. And like you said, schools are going to have to change and are changing because of the pandemic. So I don’t know if either you guys have thoughts on how we could, again, integrate. As much as I’m talking about having a 24 hour seven school, we still want to think about how we could educate not just in the school, but in the community at large, and how would an institution like we’re talking about help with that.
Leanne Marshal 10:35
I think the institution that you’re talking about the one school is, is a good is a good, it’s a good start to something that could be a lot bigger. I mean, it could be that could go into other schools that are you know, maybe they’re not all year round, but they still have, like, you know, plenty of schools right now, as I showed you guys, some stuff is that they have, they have what’s called the family a community resource centers. And those are like your one stop shop, right. So you have you can even get, you can get services for food, shelter, you can get, you know, referrals, you can get medical, you can get a list of medical facilities that are, you know, are taking, you know, patients and things like that. So they have like, it’s a resource center. So it has all these different resources. So I feel like, though a building off of those two for that are in already schools, I think is something great to do, too, is just building off of what’s already happening in each community, and, you know, partnering with those schools in those districts and doing all that, and then like, this one’s the one school idea could be, it could be huge for things, I think it could change, I could change the way people look at education and how we serve families. And, you know, even maybe having a summer program with the schools that aren’t, you know, open during the summers, like maybe having something open so that it’s available to them. There’s just so much you can do with this proposal that you can incorporate of whatsoever, you can incorporate and partner with what’s already going on in those communities. So I mean, I just feel like this whole ideas, it’s just it’s, it’s it’s start for changing how things are right now.
Joanne Stowell 12:17
I guess, for me, I don’t know much about the community resource center. So I think that it’s a great concept. I think I have to research that a little bit more, because I’m not sure is it included within the school? Is it close by the school? And you know, what’s, what’s in there. And I really think maybe starting with them with collaboration instead of having to rebuild something. And just working off, together with the one that’s already it sounds like their focus, and their goal is pretty much with what Dr. Bybee is hoping to do. So collaboration with them, when I think B,
Leanne Marshal 13:03
we just lose that during the summertime. Like I don’t know that that’s available for families during that that’s what I’m saying. There’s different things that I feel like could be built upon. And then there’s things that I feel like can be created to be a pilot have some sort of like, this is an example of a school that’s 24 seven. And you know, like those other programs that Dr. Bybee had mentioned in his proposal, there’s other schools that are open, you know, year round providing for underserved children. I think that’s a great concept. And it’s about the demographics, where are you going to be where, where’s this? Where’s, you know, where’s this going to? Where is this? Where could this launch where the most need is? You know, is it you know, Portland area? Is it, you know, an area in Vancouver, you know, it’s just different, just depending on the location and demographics, I think that would be a big thing, too. Yeah,
keevin bybee 13:56
I’m definitely looking to steal as many ideas as possible, you know, if somebody’s already got a great idea, we don’t need to reinvent the wheel. So I absolutely want to be put in touch with or learn from the Family Resource Centers. And, you know, I thought about what school before, I think it’s way too early to even begin that. But one of the things I want to make sure we’re doing is meeting a need that exists and I want to be careful not to create a need, so that I can fill it or we can fill it. So I think with more attention and as this project, Garner’s a few more eyes on it, then we would be able to identify somebody who’s willing to partner so that’s how I would think about that. In terms of the the Family Resource Centers and working with them. How well resourced are they do they have what they need, how many families are they able to, to adequately resource and what would it take to For anyone Family Resource Center associated with his school to meet all of the family’s needs that belong to that school, I don’t know if anybody’s able to speak to that.
Leanne Marshal 15:11
I mean, I can only speak to my experience there. I mean, I feel like there’s once just like, there’s one counselor to every school, there’s one resource person to every school. So that right there can tell you that that’s, it’s not staffed. And they do a lot of volunteer work to like some of these people, they just, they’re working the community a lot, they are connected with churches are connected with their community. And so they can they build those bridges, from the school to the community. But I also feel like they’re one person too. So that’s the other thing, it’s one person, and they’re serving a whole school, just as a counselor serving a whole school or school social workers serving a whole school. So I mean, there’s obviously always room for improvement anywhere in any community. Any community center like that, there’s always room to grow and to, you know, just have more have more available. That’s why I feel like partnering and understanding what their role is, and what what community they’re serving, or, I mean, like I said, it’s one, it’s one person for that whole school, which 500 to 600 students, or families.
Joanne Stowell 16:24
I think what you’re talking about is a multi disciplinary team. Present, because if you have that in place, you may not need two to three social workers or counselors, if you have like, a nurse, like a medical person, and then you have like the counselor or therapist, and you have the social worker with community resources. And then the resource person or, you know, I think over the psychologist, if you have that multidisciplinary team that they have separate jobs, but other jobs, everybody connects with each other. The need may not be as high. You know, that’s, that’s what I’m thinking because, of course, multi smoking weed, we always want that, because it’s just not one aspect of a need that has to be addressed. It’s a cumulative.
Leanne Marshal 17:27
Right. And I feel like we have multidisciplinary teams, but there, there’s prefer specific things like a child’s education plan or behavioral plan or clinical needs. So it’s like always specific to what the child needs, and then we all come together, but that’s not I mean, that happens as often as needed. But it’s not anything consistent. Right?
Joanne Stowell 17:50
Right.
Leanne Marshal 17:52
The teams are there, it’s just a matter of, again, this one school proposal is proposing that we, you know that all of this is under one roof, right? Where I feel as like a school nurse has four schools to go to so they’re not always at that one school, right? psychologist, they are in different schools to they have two to three schools that they cover, so they’re not always in that same building. Do you see what I’m saying? Like that, that consistency. They’re not in that building all the time. So the consistency in each building is different.
Joanne Stowell 18:24
So in a perfect world, Dr. Bybee,
keevin bybee 18:28
hey, you know, we can, in order to make any improvements, you got to have an imagination of what that perfect world might be, regardless of how feasible it is, you know,
Joanne Stowell 18:37
let’s do this,
keevin bybee 18:39
you gotta have something to aim for
Leanne Marshal 18:41
the one school that has the whole will try disciplinarity.
keevin bybee 18:45
Even if you shoot for Mars, you’ll maybe land on the moon, which is still pretty darn good, awesome. You brought up so much stuff that’s worth touching on, like making sure that our care givers aren’t stretched thin, and that they volunteer their extra time, you know, basically, stuff they should get paid to do, they kind of do on their own time volunteer, because the people that are attracted to this work are from my experience, people that you know, have a, a passion for it. And it’s something that is easily taken advantage of, I think, because you have, there’s a need that you can meet. There’s not necessarily the funding to do it. But people go above and beyond so much of the time and you know, I’m a big fan of doing whatever we can to raise awareness to augment the need to raise the awareness to augment, you know, salaries like yourselves and like teachers and like OTS and all of those people who end up doing so much of the second shift work, you know, you could even make an analogy to domestic behavior and how there’s all the unpaid on On acknowledged work that mostly moms not exclusively, but for where you still live in a stereotypical United States, right. So, so yeah, I just want to make sure we’re resourcing our people as much as possible.
Leanne Marshal 20:12
And we care. I think a lot of a lot of people that go into this work. It’s, it’s about investing in our futures and our in our kids as futures and our and like the world that’s, you know, like, what’s ahead of us, like, what are we leaving for them? And how can we show that this is I mean, this is this is their, you know, we want to do better, you want to keep doing better. And so I think a lot of the social workers and counselors that that do go above and beyond are those people who just are investing in the future of the children right now.
keevin bybee 20:47
We should invest in them. I like how you frame that investment, not that we need to make it all about money. But I think Unfortunately, there’s, you know, especially in the United States, we still have this interesting perception of entitlements, that what are we really entitled to? Whereas I feel that if we would frame things like education and health care, as investments, then maybe we could get some of those people who are hesitant to fund quote, entitlements a little bit more on our side. I don’t know if you guys have any thoughts or reactions to that?
Leanne Marshal 21:28
I definitely agree. I think that we have to look at things we have the perspective or the narrative has to change. I think you and I talked about that Dr. Bybee, as the narrative needs to change into into an investment like that, but just looking at our future, looking what our kids what our kids are able and what can I mean, like, look at all we’ve accomplished, like, why can’t they do better, like they could do better if we invest in them and their futures and their communities and the communities they could do better? So I feel like that’s, that’s how I that’s exactly how I see it as an investment investment in our kids as future because we all we always want our children to do more better, right? So we have to build these communities that are underprivileged and underserved and give them those opportunities to because they deserve that opportunity just as much.
keevin bybee 22:16
And not that I’m opposed to, you know, quote, handouts, but it’s just interesting that for whatever reason, you call it a handout or an entitlement, and there’s so much more resistance. I don’t know what that says or what that means, but just an interesting aspect of humanity, I guess. Right. And, you know, as social workers, a lot of what you guys do is team building and coalition building. And we’d kind of you mentioned that before, how a lot of services seem to be a little bit siloed? How, in addition to just bringing things all under the one roof? Do you see opportunities for improved communication and collaboration between all of the people that are doing this great work, but just don’t have access to each other? How can we make that better?
Leanne Marshal 23:08
I’ll let you answer this one. Joanne.
Joanne Stowell 23:11
So you are you talking about like the professionals that are involved with the children like with the doctors, and
keevin bybee 23:18
yeah, all of it, all of it, you know, doctors, counselors, social workers, etc.
Joanne Stowell 23:23
I do see the lack of teamwork or communication. And I see that there’s more, more communication and more involvement with children that come into like the family practice, if Child Protective Services is involved, or if there is a concern for neglect or maltreatment. And it seems like that’s when you know, the medical field and then the social work and then the school get more involved because it’s very evident that this child or children are not getting the care that they deserve or need. So and I think that’s just the how it is in our community. And again, we talked about reactive where let’s look at Yeah, like the proactive and, and it’s hard because when parents bring the kids in the time is very limited. I mean, providers are going and I’ve seen this you have a certain time of year with with this patient that you’re like the other ones waiting and you try to rush and but you try to get their needs met and it’s and it’s difficult because of the kiddos are not sharing anything or you don’t sense something and or have the ability or the time to really look more into it. It can be lost through the cracks. And and I think that’s where the lack of communication happens or the lack of involvement. It’s because we’re all so busy, there’s just so much to do. And there’s not enough staff, like if there was more social workers in the family clinic and maybe not necessarily like the MSW, but Bachelor of Social Work, you know, but still in that field that can do the work. Just like when we talk about having our ends in the school, why can’t we use opiates? You know, what I’m saying? I mean, like using them to the best of their ability or their their scope of practice? Why does it have to be at this other level, where all our goals and our work is the same? So I think that that would be a huge improvement with professionals working together. It’s just the availability of that, of having the access to the kids and the family. But you know, that’s, that’s hard to say, because I think it is, it’s the priorities in our society.
Leanne Marshal 26:05
Well, yeah, I feel like it’s just my golf game. Yeah, it’s building relationships. We don’t build the relationships, that we don’t have a time in the day to build a relationships. It was just been investigations you go in, you’re immediately your first impression is everything. It’s like everything has to happen in this little time frame. So it’s like how do we build relationships? What we’re doing more preventative work, and inner, you know, instead of just doing crisis management, why aren’t we doing a little bit? Why aren’t we looking at building relationships so that we can try to prevent that family that’s going that’s in crisis? Why can’t Why were we there before, to see that that was going to happen? Right, like to assess and to have that relationship with that family before it got to that crisis level? Because once we’re at that crisis level, everything is just there’s no relationship building the communications, really rare because you’re in crisis mode. So it’s like, how do we prevent? How do we do more preventative work and relationship building? Because our world right now is not about relationship building, unfortunately? And how do we make that shift? Again, to where that having that relationship can do a lot of preventative work? Right. Absolutely.
Joanne Stowell 27:17
And I think there’s so many other doors opening, but I think this concept was a good start, because that’s, that’s the foundation. That’s where it can start with the communication and the work and the preventative measures. I mean, it’s, it’s an, it’s great, it’s wonderful, it’s beautiful. It’s like, let’s do this, you know. And I think that is that you have to build that foundation and changing the concept, changing the thinking, you know, breaking the cycle, because the thoughts are all has always been the same like that. You know, I mean, the thinking is, the reactive person now is encouraging and educating, to change that thinking, to be more preventative, you know, and proactive instead of reactive.
keevin bybee 28:17
If you permit your quick digression, I think you touched on so many great points. And, you know, this thing isn’t going to happen in isolation. And there’s so many other little incentives that are misaligned, that accumulate into the system that we see. So one thing that we see like in medicine most of the time, except for rare places, like Kaiser, but even then, you know, I’m paid by the widget, I’m paid by the number of 20 minute appointments that I book, not so much by how much work I can do in my day that that tributes to a patient’s well being like proactive panel management, calling my patients at a time leveraging nurses and ppas and nurse practitioners to do some of the extending work so that I can leverage the four years of medical school and three years of residency to the highest degree, and everybody else can leverage their degrees to the highest that their their skills are capable of. And so one, it’s the billing mechanism for medicine absolutely feeds in this because I’ve got no incentive to call the counselor or the therapist or CPS, I mean, when I have a mandatory reporting thing, but to follow up or to make those extra five or 10 minute efforts, you know, I’m just not incentivized to do that. I mean, I do a lot of the time but I mean, I know multiple people who who don’t just because it’s probably going to fall back on the back burner because like they got other shit going on and they got plenty to do. So, like you said, making sure that we’re integrating I think even learners in the RN LPN, LPN, and social work pipeline, wherever they are on their education, I think getting a lot more practical hands on experience as part of education to offload some of the tasks that like, only somebody with some amount of your training could do, but doesn’t doesn’t already need to have the Masters level to do it. So that you can utilize your masters training to the best of its ability. So all of that absolutely ties in it’s it’s not just one ingredient, it’s the it’s the soup into which we’re putting this project. So anyway, I just wanted to thank you everything that you touched on, I just wanted to say how even the way I get paid affects all of this as well. So one of the big parts of my thought is making sure that a kid has a safe place to sleep. And ideally, over time, if this could roll out to all the public schools, you know, that would be there wouldn’t be any stigma to go into your school to have a nap or to go to sleep, because it would be everywhere, it wouldn’t be just that one place where only those people go to go take a nap or go to sleep when it’s cold outside. And I know you’ve got some experience in foster care. So I was just curious if you could provide any insight into how we could have a few beds available at a school and make it safe and transparent. And make sure that people are okay with it in the community, as well as any thoughts on how to make sure that it’s a low stigma thing, because we want their this to be available to everybody. And we don’t want the kids who need to do this to be singled out and say, Oh, those are the different kids because they have to use this resource. We want it to just be something that’s available. So anyway, I hope there’s a coherent question in there or something you can riff off of?
Leanne Marshal 32:04
There’s kind of different, I have different thoughts. Yeah, I have just different thoughts, just because you’re right, the stigma and what it looks like, and the number of homeless youth is unreal and shouldn’t be happening. Um, I think, to build something within a school. My I mean, that’s, I think that’d be could be challenging. Because that stigma would probably be there would not want to utilize that I think more of a like, in the foster care world, the ideal thing for foster for, for the foster care world would be that we had multiple homes, and each school like that were foster parents, or multiple foster parents in each school to provide not having to move that child into another district or move that child away from their school. So our when I when I did recruit, for my experience with recruitment, retention, we, our biggest recruitment, like goal was to get more, which, which was to go into each of the school district or each of the schools and try to get fast and try to recruit foster parents. So that each child that came out of that home or came out of that school would have an option with different foster parents in that school. So they wouldn’t have to move because, you know, we lose education every time they move a school. So I mean, that was the ideal. That was our ideal. What didn’t happen very often. So I think in a concept like this, I think there would have to be like a residential, don’t you think that Joanne like a more of a residential setting than a being in a school where they will have that maybe that residential setting could be connected with that school? And those are the kids that, you know, those kids that were homeless in the school could go to this place? You know, things like that. I just think that’s kind of a I don’t know, this one’s kind of hard for me to kind of like, wrap my head because it’s just like, it could be really challenging. What do you think?
Joanne Stowell 33:58
I’m glad you brought that up, because part of my experience is that I actually conducted investigations of foster homes and licensed facilities like daycares and shelters like oak bridge and Oak Grove and foster parents. So you’re talking Dr. Bybee added another level, because if you’re looking at like an overnight or residential, there’s the licensing aspect with the state where they would have to be licensed and there’s certain guidelines and if there’s allegations of abuse or neglect with those kiddos that are there against a staff person, or you need someone to supervise that. So that’s another level where you’re looking at, you know, like you were saying, Leann, it’s like, residential or even, maybe not, but like a shelter, like a house that would shelter these kids. But again, they have to be licensed. You have to pass and all the staff has to pass background checks. And then then you’re held at a higher standard of level of care. So that’s, that’s tough that it would be. I don’t know how Facebook is a school section where you want to house those children, it’s going to have to meet the criteria for showers and bedrooms and privacy and safety. And so that’s, yeah, I think that’s, that’s, that’s a whole loaded topic. But the concept is great, but I’m not sure how feasible that is. And again, like I said, you know, that’s a whole different legality and licensing structure that would have to be involved.
keevin bybee 35:51
Yeah, I, I configure, and I always guess that this would be among the hardest parts to sell. My, the naive part of me thinks that being in a school can help with the transparency, because there’s just more traffic there. And it’s not just a place where somebody investigates once a I don’t know, quarter, whatever the real number is, but like somebody is in school every day, those facilities will have eyes on them every day. So I don’t know if that really, practically makes a difference. But that would be the naive, dreamy part of me go and maybe it has a little bit better. I have a contact through Janis youth, local homeless youth group. So hopefully, they’ll they’ll have some information. But I agree with everything you’re saying. I just have so many instances for patients for kids who the the safest place for them to go is back to their abusive environments. And it hooray America and liability, it just seems insane to me that we can’t overcome some liability to protect these kids. So I can definitely practically difficult, but I just like to think in principle, there’s some way we could get around it. You know, you guys have provided a wonderful amount of information. And I’ve talked about the major things that I wanted to touch on. And I want to be really respectful of your time. Did you have any further thoughts? any thing else I might want to think about that we didn’t already bring up?
Leanne Marshal 37:33
No, I just think my biggest things, but with everything is building something that we’re the prevent, like the prevention is there, but also the relationships and building those and having consistent staff and have me like all these things. Like, again, this is my ideal world, right? This is this proposal is big, yes, has so many points. But in an ideal world, we would have that we would have a good team in place that would be consistent that these families would know. Because I think a lot of the other thing that people that we need to think about is the turnovers for things like, you know, when you’re switching social workers, and you’re switching those, I think that my ideal world, there would be more consistency. You know, people staying in jobs longer, so that they can build those relationships, and then the transitioning against my ideal world, transitions would help smoother, there would be more of us so that we could work as a team, and always have somebody there, that’s consistent, right, and the turnover rates and all that. I mean, like that that’s running the program before that was my biggest thing is making sure that my staff was okay, so that we didn’t have that turnover rate. So that community could rely on the program and rely on us for that consistency. Because all around us as always changing some social worker, and you don’t see that social worker again, but that social worker you connected with and you had that built within they’re gone now. I mean, what are we doing? What’s the purpose, you know, the trust factor, the building relationship, and communication because our communication is changing out these days, too. So I just think those are important. I mean, those are important things that I just feel are when you’re working with people and situations, I think that’s important to really always consider and maybe that’s the narrative we need to be switching towards is that
keevin bybee 39:31
100 Same with with all my patients that have unmet mental health therapy needs, one of the biggest challenges is finding their therapist that they want finding one they can work with and then being able to stay with that person long enough to get the work done. And so if we’re if we’re talking perfect world, and things that we would love to see you so why is it that there is the turnover, you know, burnout, understaffing under resourcing underpaid, And I, you know, I fundamentally think that any discussion around money is just a distraction. I don’t know that we need the several 100 military bases around the world. So there’s just a couple dollars that we could siphon off from other projects, right. So the money’s there, again, talking about the soup that we all need to live in. I don’t know what everybody’s opinion of Andrew Yang and his proposal for universal basic income, and there’s a bunch of different ways to do something similar, and we don’t need to get stuck on any one thing. But you know, I’m a sci fi nut and the writing’s on the wall. Robots are coming, automation is taking over a lot of industry and service. And so a lot of the majority of the jobs that we have in the United States right now are going to be disappearing. And we’re going to need to do something and we still use money. And so something like universal basic income is a nice way to plug the gap until the robot overlords are really are providing for us and we can live in a post scarcity utopia. This digression has a point I promise you. And so when we have more it when we have a universal basic income, and then when we decide to refund on some of the money that we do have from projects like, you know, funding the military industrial complex for the monopoly on petrochemicals, then we can turn that money into funding social services. And then we can have more people with better salaries and better resources, preventing burnout, improving longevity in the job, there will be more people available to do it. Because, thankfully, you know, we won’t have to put people through dangerous and monotonous and toiling work just to not starve every day if we have a universal basic income. So I think all of these things feed into each other, to the degree that we can keep staff turnover low, if we’re funding them well. And there’s more people available to do the to do the work. And there was a point there, I hope it got across and hopefully it resonates with people. No, I
Leanne Marshal 42:13
definitely agree. I feel like we are going to a different world. But again, we can change that narrative. And
Joanne Stowell 42:21
yes,
Leanne Marshal 42:23
we can, you know, again, invest in our future, invest in our kids his future.
keevin bybee 42:29
I just want to say thank you again, so much. This was a great conversation, your input, insight and willingness to explore this. out their idea with me is really energizing. So thanks for your time. Any closing words, thoughts, I go, one thing I always want to close with is if you have people who might also be interested in this project that would have expertise and skills that would be you’d willing to be put me in touch with any thoughts on that. And you could give it to me offline so that people don’t feel publicly called out.
Joanne Stowell 43:09
Great. Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Leanne Marshal 43:14
Yes, thank you for letting us be a part of this. This is pretty exciting. And always know that we’re here just I’m here to support you in this big project. So any questions or anything in the future? Please feel free to
keevin bybee 43:24
absolutely so yeah, I’m gonna take some notes put together or reinforce my proposal based on what we said. talk to more people and we’ll just kind of circle around. Maybe we can do around two and a little bit.
Joanne Stowell 43:37
Okay. Thank you.
Leanne Marshal 43:38
Good bye. Thank you so much.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
great reference! the great carl is almost always appropriate. thanks for reading. any place this doesn’t jive with your understandings,…